ironphoenix | Current issue

I've been reluctant to post on this subject for a while, because my position isn't a popular one, I fear. Recent events, however, have made it harder to stay silent, so here goes. If you don't stop reading here, I ask that you go all the way to the end.

I believe abortion is wrong. I believe it is a killing of a helpless human being, with all that entails. In cases where if the child doesn't die then the mother will, I can support it, but not otherwise.

That said, I believe a lot of other things, too.

I believe that safe, effective contraception and thorough, realistic sexual education should be universally available. I believe that sexuality, and current reality being what it is, women's sexuality in particular, should not be stigmatized. I believe that child care should be available and affordable. I believe that staying at home to look after children should not be a "CLM." I believe that victims of rape should be supported and treated with dignity and respect, not further victimized. I believe that in law and in practice, women should have free access to safe abortions. I believe that women who choose to have abortions should not be stigmatized either, and should have access to support and counselling services. I believe that we as a society need these things. I believe that the consequences of not having these things are contributing or would contribute to a lot of suffering and oppression. I hope that we, as societies, can overcome the systemic and structural factors which lead women to consider having their children aborted. I believe that the best ways to do this are by providing the support I described, not by imposing restrictions on vulnerable women at the time of their need.

That beling my fundamental position, let me now write a few things about the recent murder of Dr. Tiller, a doctor who specialized in late-term abortions, apparently motivated by his practice.

I believe that killing this person was wrong and unjustified. I believe it was an intrinsically wrong act of itself, and more. I understand the position that could be taken, that killing someone who would themselves kill many others is the lesser of two evils, and I reject it. I believe that it's a false saving, and one which merely contributes to the violence and oppression that encourage women to seek out abortions. I believe that "preemptive" acts or punitive vigilanteism undermine the social relationships of trust and mutuality that build lasting solutions to systemic problems. Let me say this again clearly and unequivocally: I repudiate this killing.

In closing, I ask that you not quote me out of context. I've written short sentences here, but they're part of a whole. It would be easy to misrepresent me by taking bits of this and leaving the rest behind; please don't.

Threaded | Top-Level Comments Only

I don't think that your position is an unpopular one.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I don't know why your opinion would be unpopular. You have a belief, a strong one, but you also do not want to legislate your opinion on those that wouldn't share it. I think your position is a perfectly sensible one.

I consider myself pro-choice and I think your position is awesome: you think that abortion should be safe, legal, and rare, because we are going to help women have children only when and if they want, and with lots of support. If all pro-lifers thought this way, we would not HAVE the debates about this problem and related ones that we do as a society; we would all be doing something productive about it together. The problem is all the pro-lifers who use "but what about the helpless unborn babies" as a pretext to shame and control women.

From what I've read Dr. Tiller was doing his best to save the lives of the mothers, cases where the baby was either hideously malformed or would kill the mother before or during birth, or both. So, to my mind, if you know you can't save the baby, but you can save the mother, you save the mother. At least that's one out of two still alive and healthy.

I think your position is excellent. I believe that abortion should be safe and available to women, but I frown on it being used as birth control.

That being said, I could never have one myself. But expect everyone to think and feel the way I do about it? Not so much.

I applaud you for posting this.

I don't see how your position would be unpopular - in fact, I believe that it is likely shared with a large portion of the pro-choice folks.
Thank you for getting this out there.

It isn't one I've often seen presented in this rather polarized discussion; I guess I'm afraid of being seen by each "side" as part of "the enemy."

You're welcome... and thanks for your support, too.

You're welcome!

See reply to

dagibbs' comment above...

Thanks for your encouragement!

Well, if everybody thought the same way, there wouldn't be debates no matter what the position was, but I agree with your point.

I think people on both ends of the polarized spectrum are part of "the problem".

I didn't actually know that that was what Dr. Tiller's practice was about; I'm happy that that's how he saw it.

Thank you!

You're welcome! And, thanks for your support!

As for the position being unpopular, see my reply to

dagibbs' comment above.

I think the American debate is very polarized. I think, in Canada, your position may be within a reasonable range of the majority opinion -- the debate doesn't seem nearly as polarized here, except as contaminated by the fall out from the debate in the USA.

I would guess that most of the pro-choice people have similarly nuanced opinions -- that abortion is unfortunate (at best), not something they want to have happen, but that the choice of forbidding it is far worse. While, the other side, the "pro-life" people, seem to have less nuanced opinions, being more absolutist about it. But, when arguing against an absolutist position, it is hard to take a nuanced stance, and least in public debate.

I mostly agree with you, however, I don't know if society will ever get to such a state where abortion is eliminated by way of comprehensive education/contraception/childcare/etc. The entitlement society we live in is the main reason why I don't think it will be, because more and more people think "I can do anything I like and I don't need to be responsible for the consequences of my actions" - and thus there is less of the "prevention" side going on (education, use of contraceptives, etc.). This is also why STD rates are still rising, even though basic contraceptives are easily available. (This theory is not restricted to sexual behaviour, it also applies to obesity rates, among others)

The most important aspect of sex education I believe should be self-esteem. To teach people that they don't need to have sex to fit in, or to keep a partner, or because it is expected on X date, or whatever else. Kids are also starting into sexual adventures way too young these days (and not just "these days" I guess, I thought the same thing when I was in high school and my peers were having sex and I was like "WTF? Already?").

Your point of view seems pretty much in line with most people I know who identify as "pro choice".

Thank you for sharing.

I don't agree with you on everything, but as a society we should be able to hear and listen to all sides of an argument.

I think it a shame that political discourse is often reduced to sound bits and policies often have all the nuances removed.

And yet, I identify as pro-life.

But I identify as pro-life, to the extent that I pick a side.

Perhaps it's that the most vocal pro-life folks are the absolutist ones, and the circles you move in tend more towards the pro-choice, so you know the moderates on that side of the table?

It's all really just words.

I suspect that the moderates on both sides actually agree with each other.

*nod* Consequences don't care who's responsible for them, do they? They just are. Prudent people consider the consequences of what they do, and act accordingly. Sadly, none of us are always prudent, and even when we are, sometimes things beyond our control or low-probability events lead to bad consequences anyway.

I agree that self-esteem is critical; I have no idea how to teach it if the parents and social circle are undermining it, though!

Thanks for reading!

And I agree.

I hear that you identify as pro-life.

"I believe abortion is wrong." ... "I believe that in law and in practice, women should have free access to safe abortions."

I think of that combination as the classic pro-choice statement.

Also, I'm not sure there are non-moderates, extremists, on the pro-choice side the way there are on the pro-life side. I don't think there are any people on the pro-choice side calling for the murder of Drs, or actually performing such murders/assassinations. I don't think there are people on the pro-choice burning down buildings.

The pickle is that artificially elevated self-esteem leads to an entitlement society. "I am awesome and have never failed/done wrong so there are no consequences".

Good points, I just think the solution is a bit more difficult then what you propose.

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