Interesting article

[ironphoenix]

An article about women leaving tech fields in their thirties and forties, related to recent discussions. The article's main point is good and seems pretty sound to me, but there's a line that's tossed in about "the hostile macho cultures — the hard hat culture of engineering, the geek culture of technology or the lab culture of science" which doesn't get any further discussion. What are your impressions or experiences of that, and why is it one of "[t]he top two reasons why women leave" work in STEM fields?

Ganked from dracodraconis.

Comments

[zenten.livejournal.com]

I know the engineers that I had to deal with at school were pretty "macho", as in they acted like they could beat anyone up in a fight, that winning was all that counts, that drinking constantly is a good idea, and were highly sexist. Not saying all were like that (I can think of some very notable exceptions) but that was the vast majority of the people in my first year engineering courses.

I'm not sure what the geek culture has to do with keeping women out though. Although that could be from the number of female geeks I know.

[soul-diaspora.livejournal.com]

As I've said before, from my perspective, the whole thing is overblown.

#1: What exactly is wrong with "geek culture"? I am a computer geek. And proud of it.

#2: "hostile macho?" In the nearly 20 years I've been into computers I've run into almost no hostility from my fellow geeks, and quite a lot of "wow, you're a woman and you're into this stuff! cool!" and other expressions of surprise and friendliness. After submitting several patches to fvwm, I was given CVS access. In my AP Comp Sci class in high school (in which I was the only female), guys came to me for homework help and one guy and I traded software for our CoCo 3's.

I just don't see the problem people talk about. Maybe I've been really lucky.

I made you a reply but LJ ated it

[beable]

Seriously - I posted a reply yesterday just as LJ went down for emergency maintenance so it didn't get posted.

Anyways, me experiences are based on comp sci and math rather than engineering but I never found the culture at school particularly macho or hostile to me as a female geek. But what would have been extremely hostile had I also been an adult student with kids was the geek student culture that assumed school could suck all your time (e.g. pulling all nighters, classes at all hours, lab crunches). The school/work/life balance was fairly extreme in it's "school" bent.

The only real "macho hostility" I have noticed in my field is an overabundance of the guys who explain things in comparison to the general population. I am a very poor debater who doesn't want to hold forth an argue when I am at all uncertain of my "facts" so I find the forth-holders annoying to deal with.

As for why women leave, I think it goes back to the work-life balance we were talking about at the cottage. Women in their thirties and forties are more likely to have simultaneously hit the point at which their career requries that work comes first if they want to move up in their workplace and when they are likely to be the sandwich generation at home (caring for kids, parents, and often both at the same time).

While men may not be happy about work meaning they don't have the time to spend with their families that they need, I think statistically women are more likely to choose to leave jobs that forces the choice between the 70-hour work weeks and family responsibilities. For most households the onus of caregiver is more on women and this doesn't mesh well with high pressure jobs.

[xiphia.livejournal.com]

I'm in that age range, and I have contemplated leaving high-tech a number of times, but not for the reasons listed in the article. I don't find it to be a "hostile macho culture" at all, my male coworkers for the past 20 years have been quite welcoming and supportive. I also don't have kids to take care of, so my work-life balance is fairly simple, my cats just aren't that demanding. If I *were* to leave high tech it would be because I found something more personally meaningful in another field, no other reason.